DarKtears

or Alexis Menard in the real world.

Aaron tells the truth…

60 Comments

You remember the post of aaron about our the next battle we’ll have. The next focus is Windows 7. Today was the PDC (professionnal developer conference) of Microsoft and they have shown to the world the new interface of Windows 7 called Scenic. So they said no more 3D eye candy, it is useless. Simplicity is the new word.  No more word can describe this :

Welcome to Winsma or Plasdows what do you want!!! So aaron was right to focus on the next step windows 7 but this screenshot is like an aggregation of other ideas,  not real new features…But the battle never end wait and see!!!!

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Author: darktears

Software Engineer at Intel Corporation.

60 thoughts on “Aaron tells the truth…

  1. You do not laugh when you encounter a new opponent for the first time.

    Don’t you OSS people ever read The Art of War? Jump to Ars Technica and actually find _out_ what that screenshot is all about, instead of thinking the fight’s already over.

  2. @twilightomni :
    “thinking the fight’s already over”
    I wrote this?

    But let’s add it if it is confusing…

  3. Oh please, Plasma is anything but simple.

    The fact it allows to configure 20 desktop plus 24 activities makes it a bload factory.

  4. @twilightomni : i have add that the battle is never finished.

    “You do not laugh when you encounter a new opponent for the first time.” It is not the first time sorry, Microsoft Windows is not here since today.

    And i have read about this screenshot so nothing new, ideas are from Mac OS or Plasma.But if you want give me more details if you know more i listen…

  5. Anyway it looks like KDE3 with superkaramba, or early KDE4 with non default theme. Look at the huge kicker! 😉

    Cheers!

  6. The sad truth though is that it looks better than the default plasma desktop today…

  7. This screenshot has nothing to do with Plasma…

  8. “The sad truth though is that it looks better than the default plasma desktop today…”

    What is better? The theme? you have plenty of choice to have the “same”.

  9. @scott : Some thing are very close sorry

  10. It doesn’t have enough clocks to compete with plasma.

  11. @anonymous: no way!! Default Plasma is 100% prettier than that. There’s too much glass in Windows desktop

  12. BTW, how about fixing the plasma mess before talking about winning?

    I took me one plasmoid and 5 seconds to screw it:

  13. @David : I talked about winning? No…. How you can have this mess? Which version of KDE? What have you done?

  14. As much as I love Plasma and KDE 4 I must say, at least their copy is more graphically polished, and they have a weather plasmoid! Those bastards!

    But plasma it’s still much greater, our Clock is MUCH more polished and beautiful

  15. Kubunto 4.10 Realese Candidate daily build downloaded 4 hours ago.

    Drag a Kate Sesion plasmoid to panel.

  16. @ David

    Man, I already destroyed my plasmarc many times during tests, mainly by using that zoom out thingy

    But I NEVER achieve to do 5% the hazard you make on it! You should work with software testing

  17. well, lets see who wins – Plasma on Windows XP and Vista or Windows 7 ;-).
    Well I am pretty sure that plasma will be in a pretty usable state(on windows) when windows 7 comes out.
    So lets wait for it…

  18. @David: this obviously a broken SVN checkout, you’re one of those plasma-hating guys that’s seeing how the fscking widget are taking their place to rule the desktop and you’re just freaking out. Plasma is not perfect, it needs improvement and it needs less bugs… but by the time W7 is out, I think we’ll have KDE4.3 out so we’ll see… MS development model and KDE one are different…

  19. @David, I’m sorry again but I’m using Kubuntu 8.10 since about 4-5 weeks and I’d never ever had a mess like yours. Maybe you found a bug,try to reproduce it and fill a good bug report. You are reading planet.kde.org, you should know how to do this

  20. aehm, “for about” 😛

  21. So easy to reproduce:

    Drag kate sesion pasmoid to the desktop, then drag the plasmoid behind the panel.

  22. It just shows that innovation at Microsoft is on a steady downward slide. Windows 7 will be vista without the bling though Microsoft would never admit that. Quite obvious some ideas were pulled of Plasma and Mac.

  23. Ahem, freetarded.

    That is all.

  24. What do the taskbar or desktop widgets have to do with Plasma, seriously?

    Did KDE pioneer either? No. They took the concepts.

    How is Windows ripping off KDE when KDE can’t even properly implement the ideas that it is taking from other operating systems?

    If you seriously believe Redmond is ripping off Plasma then you are delusional.

  25. @David:
    Woah, you found yourself a pretty bad bug there. Now my desktop is messed up too :S

  26. (Thankfully just rightclicking the plasmoid and deleting it restored the other layout.)

  27. Can someone please put a cashew in there. yes by the upper right corner.that’s it! and on the far right of that panel too. Thank you.

  28. Dear darktears:

    I write in response to you saying your post is a continuation of Aaron’s sentiments from http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/10/next-battle-lines.html.

    Namely, that he feels the desktop fight with Vista is already decided and that Windows 7 is the next battlefront. Your comments then seem, at first glance, to mock the new arrival on the OS scene.

    It is also worth pointing out your fallacy: yes, it may be another iteration of the Windows series, but that doesn’t mean it’s the same as the previous ones. If Vista was the same as XP, people wouldn’t whine about it so much.

    Windows 7 should be more of a wildcard for the KDE community than something to laugh at before it hits the front gate. Who knows — coupled with the KDE platform and good KDE applications, it might even offer a better experience than KDE apps on KDE itself.

    KDE 4.2, while looking fantastic, must overcome the shaky reception of the KDE 4.0x branch just like KDE 4.1 had to live up to (yes, it must — KDE 4.1 alone was good, but not enough), and it is unwise to be overconfident too soon.

  29. @david

    Kate session plasmoid is not yet one of the stable plasmoids that come with default plasma. Plasmoids that are known to work well now are on kdebase. On KDE 4.2 trunk, until now: activitybar, analog-clock, battery, calendar, devicenotifier, digital-clock, icon, kickoff,
    lock_logout, pager, system-monitor,systemtray, tasks, trash and webbrowser. Expect more for 4.2 once it’s released (the weather plasmoid is one of the candidates).

    On kubuntu, probably those plasmoids on kdebase package work well, if not, submit a bug.

    When a plasmoid is developed, the developers tells how the plasmoid should behave on the containments (desktop, panel, etc.). Probably the kate plasmoid is not finished yet for the panel, just that. Use it on the desktop or wait until it is completely done. You can always send bugs and help, if you want.

    Don’t know how you got it installed, but many distributions make packages of playground plasmoids (plasmoid that are being developed), maybe that’s the case.

    Anyway, you are using a Release Candidate version, it could be a problem on the package too.

    So, there are many ways to help, and you just came here and complained…

  30. @david

    There are some of plasmoids from kdeplasma-addons that are not ready for use on the panel too.

    So, if you see any other plasmoid with the same problem of kate’s one (on panels) know that it is being developed.

    Take care…

  31. I know this bug.. When you put a plasmoid on the panel that’s bigger then the panel, the difference goes to the top, and all other plasmoids assume the panel size is that big

    I think that’s already on the bug tracking, I had this in minor proportions on my eeepc when I tried to make a panel with 10px of height..

  32. @SVG craczy

    If plasma it self is not protected againts defective plasmoids then God help us. That would mean not only a bad desing but also a security problem in some circunstanses

  33. @SVG crazy

    BTW? How come a plasmoid can influence in the size of the panel? A panel should dictated the size of the plasmoid not the other way around.

  34. So, maybe I’m dumb but, could someone please point out the NEW similarities between this screenshot and plasma?

    I only ask because Vista already had widgets (I think it even has these particular widgets). The only real change I can see (myself) is that they are now floating out in the middle of the desktop and not in the side-bar. This seems to be a relatively small change?

  35. @Scott

    Is just another case of “My ego is bigger than my skills” issue.

  36. Actually, W7 looks quite similar to KDE 4 + Glassified. I like the new taskbar/dock-concept of it, I personally will quickly get used to it.

    And that is one of the new things, which are similar to the upcoming KDE: A fully customizable systray and taskbar. Coosing the displayed Systray-icons and grouping tasks in the taskbar as the user wishes. An historic Moment. Apple is no longer alone an inspiration for MS. Now KDE ist that too.;-)

    BTW: MS said, W7 will use less system ressources, which means it will probably used exactly the same ressources like Vista. Even this would be okay, computers are gettings more powerfull.

    Back to topic. KDE will arrive feature parity concerning panel and gadgets around early 2009. How will KDE look like when W7 is just released?

    I’m looking forward to the future.

  37. the interesting thing about observing something obvious is that people feel compelled to struggle against the obviousness of the statement and present a reason that it must not be what it is.

    the obvious observation that darktears is making that those windows 7 screenshots look a hell of a lot more like what we’re doing than where microsoft was with previous revisions.

    nothing more, nothing less.

    what it highlights is that we really shouldn’t remain fixated on the vista release, but look forward to what we will be competing with in a few years time.

    as for “plasma: fix it!” comments, well .. that’s what we’re doing day after day, every day. the progress is tangible and even impressive. it also has nothing to do with ensuring we keep our eyes on the ball (future win/mac verions, not yesterday’s releases) so that we can increase, rather than lose, competitiveness.

    Alexis’ point was simple, obvious and imho powerful.

    sit back, breath, think about what it means and then do something about it. peace.

  38. Widgets living on the desktop is hardly a new idea. Also, the taskbar has a far different functionality than its predecessors, as well as from KDE 4’s implementation.

    I love *nix as much as the next guy, but please, save your rancor for things that matter – we don’t want to end up like the Cult of Apple.

  39. it always amuses me when kde people blame other operating system for blatant ripping

    i love kde and the efforts around it but COME ON

    from the beginning, KDE has been mimicking Windows in hope to bring more people to the open source desktop, you can tell them:
    “look, it’s just the same as Windows but free: you have the start menu at the corner of the task bar, you move windows around the same as you do on Windows, you close them by clicking the cross at the upper right corner … see it’s all the same, you won’t get lost, why don’t you give it a try ?”

    reminds me KDE accusing Apple for having ripped Dashboard …

  40. For me the point is : Microsoft is the number 1 of software in the world (due of illegal buisness but it’s an another story). How many guy works everyday on Windows, and more exactly on the new interface? For sure MORE than KDE. So i think we are better with less people. I was just kind of sad when i discovered this screenshot because coming from the number 1, i was waiting for something new. How many million dollars Microsoft spend on research?

    I’m really impressed by the progress of what do the Plasma team and how Plasma progress. But let’s keep plasma become better and better, and i return improve Qt in the same time and we will see what other do.

  41. Well… the screenshot does look kinda like KDE4..
    Its somewhat scrary, its plasma proprietary…

    What if Microsoft has success with Windows 7? We cant let that happen…

  42. @David:
    yes, i know that bug and promise: for 4.2 final it will be gone 😀

  43. Bugs aside, I think Plasma looks way more polished, visually, than the Windows 7 screenshot. The tinting/gradient on the buttons looks really fake and inconsistent. But of course, that’s not the final product.

    KDE 4 will hopefully be at least on par with Windows 7 / Scenic, if not slightly ahead of the curve. We’re not going to win out over Microsoft overnight, so competing with them isn’t really a huge issue.

    And I think the desktop/shell UI is not actually the #1 thing keeping people on Windows, either — it’s the apps. Why would you want to run XP on a EEE PC? Probably because people like their favorite IM client, their favorite Microsoft Office(TM) suite, their favorite music player, etc.

    On another note, the “Elegance” plasma theme actually looks really nice, in my opinion.

  44. Well for all artist on kde-look making vista-like (MS-like) themes…
    Windows 7 should be a piece of cake! 😉

  45. Come on KDE, be brave and drop the hideous black and grey defaults and go for nice blue ones, just like the Windows 7 screenshot.

  46. Solardiety:

    Was just thinking the same. What if Windows 7 succeed and people will look at KDE and say it’s ripping off from Windows 7?

  47. Oh boy Windows 7 is transforming into kde 4.0 !

  48. I think this is just a perception problem, I don’t perceive this as being similar to KDE4/plasma.

    However, I am curious because there must be something there that is similar, and other people are picking up on that. So what, exactly, is similar (discounting things that were in Vista, of course)?

  49. @david

    >>BTW? How come a plasmoid can influence in the size of the panel? A panel should dictated the size of the plasmoid not the other way around.

    I am no KDE developer. I just compile it from trunk and take a look at how things progress. As far as I know, this problem is being worked on.

    Talking about the tecnology, I am really disapointed with the screenshot/mockup. So many dollars and just that? I really expected something new. Plasma now offers something new from the design, from the beginning, and it is very easy to create interesting things on top of it (even easier on 4.2, with python , for instance). Plasma is really “adaptative”. You can completely change the theme, you can create plasmoids for different containments, create new containments, activities and so on… because of all these new stuff, some problems/bugs happen (like the panel one), and these problem are being worked on and solved. Take a look at the huge jump/increase plasma did from KDE 4.0 to KDE 4.2 trunk, for instance… less than ONE YEAR! It proves this tecnology is really really going to give us many good surprises…

    I wouldn’t be surprised if someone tries to mimic the behavior of this windows 7 on plasma (through plasmoids, containments and theme) once windows is released. I really see no reason for that, but there is always pleople who like the way windows is… well… taste is taste…

    On the other hand, KDE is not only plasma… and I think kde apps are proving they are good (and will get better each day)… Let’s see if windows is going to make a music player better than amarok is going to be…

  50. Pingback: Windows 7 Clon de KDE 4 « Paradise of Linux

  51. If I was the developer of a completely broken desktop environment which works on a completely broken system which has failed to grab even 1% market share, I would not be very prone to speak bad about others…

  52. http://video.golem.de/desktop-applikationen/1689/windows-7-live-demo-pdc-2008.html

    Stepping aside from security issues and how other things will act at full scale, it looks pretty neat so far. But I wouldn’t use it anyway. Open source fanatic and I’m sticking to my principles no matter what.

  53. @DayEleven : If i was a pretty stupid guy who post stupid comments, who have no constructive argument, no idea to share then i will just say nothing instead of you comment with lack of content.

    Instead of this just please take a keyboard and improve this broken system, and if you have at least one idea create something, let us know….

    The must funny is that you are so coward to just let your name.

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  57. “solardeity said:
    October 29, 2008 at 8:02 am

    Well… the screenshot does look kinda like KDE4..
    Its somewhat scrary, its plasma proprietary…

    What if Microsoft has success with Windows 7? We cant let that happen…”

    damn, some linux people piss me off sometimes…

  58. Guess what? I asked my 4 years boy what does it look like, and his answer was: looks like moms computer… (moms uses Kubuntu!!) SAY NO MORE.

  59. Vista takes the old desktop, with old widgets, and adds on top of it a layer of canvas-based widgets that don’t integrate well with the rest of the desktop. Windows 7 just gets rid of the sidebar and better integrates between window previews and grouped windows in the taskbar.

    Plasma is written entirely using canvas-based widgets. These widgets integrate well with each other. These widgets aren’t an afterthought, they are what the desktop is made of. Then there is all the innovation such as activities, containments, JOLIE, context/environment awareness, DataEngines, Services, and probably more I’m not even aware of.

    I don’t think it will be a problem to add that thumbnail integration to the Plasma taskbar before Windows 7 is even released.

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